Monday, March 10, 2008

On Listening

Doug Groothuis has posted an extremely well written and meaty essay called A Short Theology of Listening which is a must-read.

18 comments:

Sarah Scott said...

Anonymous,

As I have said before, personal attacks are not tolerated on this blog. However, any form of dissenting argument minus the ad hominem tendencies is quite welcome.

Anonymous said...

Okay. I did not find the article to be well written and meaty. As an aside, I don't think Professor Groothuis has a great reputation for listening. Some have wondered if he would fit in better in more of a conservative school. Just my dissenting opinion shared by many.

Sarah Scott said...

Incognito haranguer,

You are still deflecting attention from what was written to the writer, rather than presenting an argument. You did the same thing as before but softened the tone. This is a fallacy.

I won't entertain venting from someone who clearly has a bone to pick, but rather than use reasoned discourse, wants to use cyberspace as an insult pulpit while hiding under the cloak of anonymity.

Daniel said...

Agreed. No basis for your claim whatsoever. And since when is Denver Seminary NOT known as being conservative theologically???

Anonymous said...
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Sarah Scott said...

Chris was back! Now he is gone. Once again, Chris, SAT scores are irrelevant to this blog. Have a nice day.

Doug Groothuis said...

Sarah:

Thanks for the link.

How does this person know I don't listen? Is there any evidence for that? No name give; no guts displayed.

Denver is a theologically conserative school. The faculty hold various political views across the spectrum. My views are that of principled conservative, which is not the same as a Republican. This is what used to be called classical liberalism (not a modern liberalism).

Any way, I recently had our faculty secretary enter this essay electronically. It was originally written for a small church's newletter in 1981 and put into a file of my "unpublished" writings. I went back to it and thought it had some good things to say--if anyone will listen.

Southern Dreaming said...

Denver Seminary is not theologically conservative. It is ecumenical. Not too long ago I received a copy of the school's journal with a story about a Catholic graduate. I was surprised that he was admitted to what I thought was a conservative school and shocked that he was featured as a graduate.

Sarah Scott said...

Southern Dreaming,

Being ecumenical is different than being accepting of various views *within the Scriptural bounds of orthodoxy*, Which is still inside the realm of theological conservatism.

Southern Dreaming said...

Catholics are not within the scriptural bounds of orthodoxy. I think you need to read a little more about catholicism with its worship of saints, veneration of Mary, and the purpose of the mass. And this is to say nothing of purgatory. John Paul II dedicated his papal reign to the "holy mother." All of this flies in the face of the Lord's death on our behalf.

Sarah Scott said...

Allow me to rephrase. Denver Seminary does not believe anything outside the scriptural bounds of orthodoxy. Any Catholics who may have slipped through the cracks after signing the specific statement of faith are by far the exception rather than the rule. Beyond this, if there was a Catholic graduate who was highlighted, it is highly unlikely because of his or her theology, which Denver Seminary would vehemently disagree with.

Southern Dreaming said...

Sadly, I would like to believe that he slipped through the cracks but unfortunately by featuring him as a grad, that would not be the case. He was and is a Catholic, as per the article. The article is in the fall 06 magazine. You can read it for yourself. While I hope there are many biblical evangelicals at Denver Seminary, this article speaks of the corporate Seminary. I assume the powers that be approved this.

Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...

Catholics are not appreciated by and large at Catholic. Our very own professor Groothuis publicly pronounced it as a misogynist heresy in a letter to F. Beckwith. Some of us share his outrage. We are still fundamentalist in the sense that we hold to our original ideals and purpose for which the seminary is created, though we are not as conservative as places such as Pillsbury, Bob Jones, or Pensacola. But they are our brethren and believe in innerrancy.

Southern Dreaming said...

What do you think the reformation was about? I grew up Catholic. Trust me, they are not brethren.

Anonymous said...

Southern Dreaming:

Oh, I think my syntax was ambigious. The "they" referred to people at places like Pillsbury, Bob Jones, etc... They are our brethren.

I agree with Professor Groothuis. The Roman Catholic Church is an affront to the Reformation and a misogynist heresy. They preach a different gospel (Galatians 1:6-11), and if I understand those passages correctly, they are conducting a train onto the tracks of everlasting judgment.

Just because some people at Denver Seminary think that Catholics can be evangelicals there are many students and faculty, who see them as reprobates who embrace serious theological error. Join us in lamenting them. For example, Dr. Groothuis publically denounces liberals and heretics; he's been one of the key figures that have led to the dissolution of catholics (he demanded that Catholics be removed from ETS by writing "you are doing the right thing to resign from your position at ETS") and he sees all the emergent church people as heretics.

So before you say that we are liberal, we still have conservative evangelicals. I strongly disapprove of the vast majority of evangelicalism and wonder if IT might be the whore of Babylon. I am very influenced by Professor Groothuis' stalwart conservativism (which most evangelicals will call fundamentalism--but I don't care).

Southern Dreaming said...

Anonymous,

I never said nor implied that Denver Seminary was liberal. I said it was ecumenical which I think fits. It saddened me to see a Catholic graduate featured in a seminary publication but it says something about the school. Too bad the story couldn't have ended with the man being saved. But its not over yet.

Sarah Scott said...

Anonymous,

You make some pretty unfounded assumptions. Careful, as I wield the delete button rather liberally (oddly enough).